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	<title>Comments on: 2: Learn</title>
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	<link>http://www.ldscio.org/2008/09/30/2-learn/</link>
	<description>Chief Information Officer for The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints</description>
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		<title>By: Nathan Zaugg</title>
		<link>http://www.ldscio.org/2008/09/30/2-learn/comment-page-1/#comment-2195</link>
		<dc:creator>Nathan Zaugg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Oct 2008 23:11:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ldscio.org/2008/09/30/2-learn/#comment-2195</guid>
		<description>Speaking of Learning, Code Camp, a free training event is happening Saturday, November 1.

Information about it is on my blog at:
http://interactiveasp.net/blogs/natesstuff/archive/2008/10/07/fall-2008-utah-code-camp-announcement.aspx

Official Announcement at:
http://utcodecamp.com/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Speaking of Learning, Code Camp, a free training event is happening Saturday, November 1.</p>
<p>Information about it is on my blog at:<br />
<a href="http://interactiveasp.net/blogs/natesstuff/archive/2008/10/07/fall-2008-utah-code-camp-announcement.aspx" rel="nofollow">http://interactiveasp.net/blogs/natesstuff/archive/2008/10/07/fall-2008-utah-code-camp-announcement.aspx</a></p>
<p>Official Announcement at:<br />
<a href="http://utcodecamp.com/" rel="nofollow">http://utcodecamp.com/</a></p>
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		<title>By: Davis</title>
		<link>http://www.ldscio.org/2008/09/30/2-learn/comment-page-1/#comment-2194</link>
		<dc:creator>Davis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Oct 2008 20:46:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ldscio.org/2008/09/30/2-learn/#comment-2194</guid>
		<description>Joel,

I think what you are doing is great.  I have been in a management position where managers were left on their own to either sink of swim.  The management training that was offered was simply a reiteration of the company values and nothing else.  Eventually, even that training moved from once a month, to once a quarter, to twice a year when it wasn&#039;t canceled.  It is great to see the church doing something to maintain the investment in the managers it has chosen to hire.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Joel,</p>
<p>I think what you are doing is great.  I have been in a management position where managers were left on their own to either sink of swim.  The management training that was offered was simply a reiteration of the company values and nothing else.  Eventually, even that training moved from once a month, to once a quarter, to twice a year when it wasn&#8217;t canceled.  It is great to see the church doing something to maintain the investment in the managers it has chosen to hire.</p>
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		<title>By: Rusty Lindquist</title>
		<link>http://www.ldscio.org/2008/09/30/2-learn/comment-page-1/#comment-2192</link>
		<dc:creator>Rusty Lindquist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Oct 2008 01:07:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ldscio.org/2008/09/30/2-learn/#comment-2192</guid>
		<description>Also, in response to Aaron above (and then I’ll shut up)...  I’ve found that the scenario you describe is symptomatic of the very topic we&#039;re discussing, the result of untrained managers.  

If your manager was promoted not for their management skills, but because they were extraordinarily good at what you&#039;re now doing, there are several natural consequences.  

The first is that they tend to micromanage, focusing on the “how”, instead of the “what and why”.  After all, they’re very good at your job, have usually done it for a very long time, and find that expenditure of their time more natural (and fulfilling) then the less familiar responsibilities of a manager.

The second is that they tend to view their employees simply as a means to a predetermined output.  You’re there to perform a desired task and you either succeed or you don’t.  They don’t look for leadership potential, but for your ability to perform the tasks you’ve been assigned.  They have to learn to do both.

Finally, this kind of manager often feels threatened by those under them that do have the most leadership potential.  Rather than feeling empowered by a highly talented team, they’ll often intentionally (or subconsciously) hide, or stifle that talent.

In each of these cases, the result is that your most talented, promising employees will often leave in order to move up, as you have suggested.  When you see this happening (along with other signs of micromanagement and/or the hesitancy to really “showcase” and promote star employees), it’s often a sign that your managers need further training.  At least that’s what I’ve found.

But employees represent a vast investment, and the longer they’ve spent with you, the more the value of that investment shifts from actual hard currency (salary, benefits, etc.), to softer, less easily replaceable things like systems, architecture, and code familiarity (on the tech side), along with all the internal cultural stuff, etc.  I’ve found these “soft skill” values to be even greater within the marketing/sales/HR aspects of companies, where soft skills represent a greater portion of an employees internal value.

So the value proposition of investing in employee leadership is that not only do you have more effective leaders/managers within your organization, but you have trained replacements should one of those managers leave or be promoted, and you establish an environment of opportunity that not only helps retain top talent, but encourages them to shine even brighter.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Also, in response to Aaron above (and then I’ll shut up)&#8230;  I’ve found that the scenario you describe is symptomatic of the very topic we&#8217;re discussing, the result of untrained managers.  </p>
<p>If your manager was promoted not for their management skills, but because they were extraordinarily good at what you&#8217;re now doing, there are several natural consequences.  </p>
<p>The first is that they tend to micromanage, focusing on the “how”, instead of the “what and why”.  After all, they’re very good at your job, have usually done it for a very long time, and find that expenditure of their time more natural (and fulfilling) then the less familiar responsibilities of a manager.</p>
<p>The second is that they tend to view their employees simply as a means to a predetermined output.  You’re there to perform a desired task and you either succeed or you don’t.  They don’t look for leadership potential, but for your ability to perform the tasks you’ve been assigned.  They have to learn to do both.</p>
<p>Finally, this kind of manager often feels threatened by those under them that do have the most leadership potential.  Rather than feeling empowered by a highly talented team, they’ll often intentionally (or subconsciously) hide, or stifle that talent.</p>
<p>In each of these cases, the result is that your most talented, promising employees will often leave in order to move up, as you have suggested.  When you see this happening (along with other signs of micromanagement and/or the hesitancy to really “showcase” and promote star employees), it’s often a sign that your managers need further training.  At least that’s what I’ve found.</p>
<p>But employees represent a vast investment, and the longer they’ve spent with you, the more the value of that investment shifts from actual hard currency (salary, benefits, etc.), to softer, less easily replaceable things like systems, architecture, and code familiarity (on the tech side), along with all the internal cultural stuff, etc.  I’ve found these “soft skill” values to be even greater within the marketing/sales/HR aspects of companies, where soft skills represent a greater portion of an employees internal value.</p>
<p>So the value proposition of investing in employee leadership is that not only do you have more effective leaders/managers within your organization, but you have trained replacements should one of those managers leave or be promoted, and you establish an environment of opportunity that not only helps retain top talent, but encourages them to shine even brighter.</p>
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		<title>By: Rusty Lindquist</title>
		<link>http://www.ldscio.org/2008/09/30/2-learn/comment-page-1/#comment-2191</link>
		<dc:creator>Rusty Lindquist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Oct 2008 23:54:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ldscio.org/2008/09/30/2-learn/#comment-2191</guid>
		<description>I’ve also found one other important element – experience.  As you state, becoming a good manager takes practice, and many engineers-turned-managers have had little of it.  Too often they’ve simply floated to the top through hard work and high output, and promotion is simply the most logical next step in their reward path.  

But one of the surest ways to build these skills is giving them what I call “managerial microcosms”, small settings where they assume the roles of the manager, or at least some of them.  Combine that with an overall leadership approach that encourages your engineers to make their own decisions within clearly communicated boundaries, and you end up building managers (and leaders) “line upon line”.

What’s more, because those “managerial microcosms” are impermanent, it lets them (and you) know if it’s a role that naturally suits them and thereby avoids the awkward situations that arise when a recently “converted” engineer discovers what he really loves is engineering.

Thanks for another great post.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I’ve also found one other important element – experience.  As you state, becoming a good manager takes practice, and many engineers-turned-managers have had little of it.  Too often they’ve simply floated to the top through hard work and high output, and promotion is simply the most logical next step in their reward path.  </p>
<p>But one of the surest ways to build these skills is giving them what I call “managerial microcosms”, small settings where they assume the roles of the manager, or at least some of them.  Combine that with an overall leadership approach that encourages your engineers to make their own decisions within clearly communicated boundaries, and you end up building managers (and leaders) “line upon line”.</p>
<p>What’s more, because those “managerial microcosms” are impermanent, it lets them (and you) know if it’s a role that naturally suits them and thereby avoids the awkward situations that arise when a recently “converted” engineer discovers what he really loves is engineering.</p>
<p>Thanks for another great post.</p>
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		<title>By: Aaron Titus</title>
		<link>http://www.ldscio.org/2008/09/30/2-learn/comment-page-1/#comment-2174</link>
		<dc:creator>Aaron Titus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Oct 2008 17:30:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ldscio.org/2008/09/30/2-learn/#comment-2174</guid>
		<description>The concept of &quot;leadership development&quot; seems foreign to every work environment I&#039;ve ever been in (including my time as a church employee).  I think part of the reason is that employers don&#039;t expect employees to stick around very long, so there is little point in investing in them.

Perhaps it&#039;s a generational thing, but I don&#039;t usually go into a job expecting to ever get a substantial promotion or change in job description.  Most organizations are not able to adapt job responsibilities with enough fluidity to maximize their employees&#039; growing skill set.  I have just come to expect that the way to get to a higher wrung is to jump to the next ladder.

In your estimation, what is the value proposition for businesses to make long-term investments in employees&#039; leadership?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The concept of &#8220;leadership development&#8221; seems foreign to every work environment I&#8217;ve ever been in (including my time as a church employee).  I think part of the reason is that employers don&#8217;t expect employees to stick around very long, so there is little point in investing in them.</p>
<p>Perhaps it&#8217;s a generational thing, but I don&#8217;t usually go into a job expecting to ever get a substantial promotion or change in job description.  Most organizations are not able to adapt job responsibilities with enough fluidity to maximize their employees&#8217; growing skill set.  I have just come to expect that the way to get to a higher wrung is to jump to the next ladder.</p>
<p>In your estimation, what is the value proposition for businesses to make long-term investments in employees&#8217; leadership?</p>
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		<title>By: Brenden McEwan</title>
		<link>http://www.ldscio.org/2008/09/30/2-learn/comment-page-1/#comment-2172</link>
		<dc:creator>Brenden McEwan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Oct 2008 17:32:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ldscio.org/2008/09/30/2-learn/#comment-2172</guid>
		<description>Great insight Joel!  Being an engineer myself,  reading has been a critical part of my success and advancement.  From an engineer&#039;s persective, the people skills books are very beneficial as well (Winning With People, How to Win Friends....).
From my experience of is rare to see that magic combination of an engineer with great soft skills. 

Thanks for all you do!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great insight Joel!  Being an engineer myself,  reading has been a critical part of my success and advancement.  From an engineer&#8217;s persective, the people skills books are very beneficial as well (Winning With People, How to Win Friends&#8230;.).<br />
From my experience of is rare to see that magic combination of an engineer with great soft skills. </p>
<p>Thanks for all you do!</p>
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		<title>By: Joel Dehlin: Growing Leaders</title>
		<link>http://www.ldscio.org/2008/09/30/2-learn/comment-page-1/#comment-2171</link>
		<dc:creator>Joel Dehlin: Growing Leaders</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Oct 2008 15:41:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ldscio.org/2008/09/30/2-learn/#comment-2171</guid>
		<description>[...] Learn, 9/30  Bookmark to: [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Learn, 9/30  Bookmark to: [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Diana O'Connor</title>
		<link>http://www.ldscio.org/2008/09/30/2-learn/comment-page-1/#comment-2170</link>
		<dc:creator>Diana O'Connor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Oct 2008 15:06:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ldscio.org/2008/09/30/2-learn/#comment-2170</guid>
		<description>Has your group read &quot;Leadership and Self-Deception&quot; yet? It&#039;s also by the Arbinger Group. It&#039;s excellent!!

&lt;em&gt;[JPD: I love the book! We have not yet read it. We&#039;ve yet to repeat an author, but with this one we might have to!&lt;/em&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Has your group read &#8220;Leadership and Self-Deception&#8221; yet? It&#8217;s also by the Arbinger Group. It&#8217;s excellent!!</p>
<p><em>[JPD: I love the book! We have not yet read it. We've yet to repeat an author, but with this one we might have to!</em></p>
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		<title>By: queuno</title>
		<link>http://www.ldscio.org/2008/09/30/2-learn/comment-page-1/#comment-2169</link>
		<dc:creator>queuno</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Oct 2008 15:02:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ldscio.org/2008/09/30/2-learn/#comment-2169</guid>
		<description>Nibley had something to about this at one point.  As it relates to IT organization, Robert Cringely had some very recent comments about IT leadership.

Most good engineers want to be leaders, not managers, but they go down the management route thinking that&#039;s the way to leadership (and in some IT organizations, those are the only leadership positions available).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nibley had something to about this at one point.  As it relates to IT organization, Robert Cringely had some very recent comments about IT leadership.</p>
<p>Most good engineers want to be leaders, not managers, but they go down the management route thinking that&#8217;s the way to leadership (and in some IT organizations, those are the only leadership positions available).</p>
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